I am researching my family history and have come up against a brick wall in relation to my paternal grandmother born Annie Elizabeth WATKINS in Shifnal 1867.
I have found her marriage records for 1891 registered in Altringham Cheshire, for the marriage in Wilmslow Cheshire and I have found a record in the 1901 census.
I am a member of Ancestry and My heritage with extensive JACKSON/WILSON family trees.
There seems to be no record of her birth or family. We never heard of family nor met any family members. All we know is she was a housekeeper for other families. Maybe she had a falling out with her family and left home. Likewise my grandfather, although I have traced some of his family.
I live in Australia and I am 75 years of age so if someone can help would be appreciated.
Hello,
Your paternal grandmother's birth surname was WATKISS* and not WATKINS.
This* surname can be justified by reference to the 1891 census record for Annie E WATKISS in Altrincham, and therefrom to earlier (Shropshire) census records with her family.
Happy hunting!
Mike,
Many thanks for your info.
I did a reply yesterday but as it does not appear on the forum so it appears "save" does not send it?
I previously found Jane Elizabeth WATKINS in a family tree but now cannot find it! Like you I suspect Annie got transposed as Jane. A lot of the original hand written records are very poor writing.
I will work on checking as you suggest.
In the 1891 Census one of your members found that she had been entered as Annie Elizabeth WATKISS which is also an incorrect entry from poor hand writing.
Brian
Peter,
Thank you for your help.
The 1891 Census is as you say but the entry is in error due to bad hand writing of the original document.
My grandmother was definitely Watkins not Watkiss.
One of your members found another possible error in the records where she was listed as Jane Elizabeth Watkins born April/May 1867 in Shifnal.
The marriage (to John Jackson) record for 1891 shows her correctly as Annie Elizabeth Watkins of Shifnale (with the extra e on Shifnal).
The death record does not show her maiden name in 1947.
Brian
Further to previous.
I have found what I believe to be the mariage of Jane Elizabeth Watkins, in 1881 she married a William Malpas. So it cannot be my grandmother.
I have tried searches with different christian names suspecting a transcription error but no luck so far.
Hello Brian,
In view of your latest finding, I still believe that the answer lies with Annie Elizabeth WATKISS.
Although you feel that there is an issue of "bad hand writing", it is significant that on adjacent* pages in the 1891 census return (*to the page containing Annie Elizabeth) there are 4 other instances of words ending in double s - none of which may be otherwise interpreted.
These are: 1 surname of Moss; 1 entry of Schoolmistress & 2 entries of Governess.
Each of these is in the same handwriting (by a single enumerator) and all of them exhibit the same double s configuration that is directly compatible with that used in Annie Elizabeth's recorded surname.
Therefore, may I suggest that one way of eliminating (or possibly verifying) Annie Elizabeth WATKISS as your grandmother will be to check her marriage certificate - to see what her maiden name and her father's name; occupation & status (i.e. deceased or retired) were given as.
Also, there may be a useful clue to be obtained from the names of the witnesses shown on the certificate.
Finally, if you already have the certificate in your possession it would be helpful to know where you sourced this from.
Peter
Incidentally, and to avoid any possible confusion, I must advise that, unlike Mike, I am not a registered member of the SFHS - but merely a guest contributor to the forum
Peter,
I have not got the marriage certificate. The record of the marriage through Ancestry does show Watkins.
The Annie Elizabeth Watkiss born 1867 in Shifnal apears to have married a William Malpas.
The family when they were alive always spoke of her name as Watkins.
Peter,
Further to previous.
Census on Line have confirmed her as Watkins.
Our transcription of this entry is correct:
| Address: | The Avenue | Registration District: | Wilmslow |
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| Watkins | Annie E | 20 | Serv | General Domestic | Shifnal, Shropshire |
The image you supplied in your email is taken from Ancestry which is not us. We cannot make correcttions to their transcripts. You would need to contact them I'm afraid.
Hello Everyone
There is an important point in this thread which is possibly being missed.
Names now might have a regular spelling, but 100-150 years ago the spelling was what the person heard (or thought they heard) on the day and written according to what they thought the spelling should be. Two different people together could easily use two different spellings and it is not unusual for more than one spelling to be used in one document by the same writer.
Just because we spell our name a particular way today doesn't meant that it will have that same spelling back through time. In fact, the further back you go, the more likely it is to change. If you don't always keep an open mind about spelling you are heading for problems and likely to miss something / somebody.
Mike
Yes, I agree there are often many different spellings of a name, particularly when we go back to very early times and there are different versions from different languages i.e. Roman, French, German, Scandinavian etc.
I have now ordered the marriage certificate.
I now have the marriage certificate and it confirms she was a Watkins daughter of Arthur Watkins who was deceased prior to the wedding on 11 Nov 1891. Arthur Watkins is shown as a Painter (Journeyman)
It does not show her Shropshire home address only her work address.
The witnesses were her husband's step mother and his sister.
I found a death notice for an Arthur Watkins in 1890 in nearby Wales which could be her father, but no Census data or other family trees.
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Hello bjacko
I can see why you have been having problems and now I am going to give you another one.
There is a Birth Registration for a Jane Elizabeth WATKINS in the Shifnal, Shropshire Registration District Apr-May-Jun (Q2) 1867 Ref: Volume: 6A Page No: 629.
There is a corresponding Christening for a Jane Elizabeth WATKINS on 26 May 1867 at Shifnal, Shropshire on the Family Search web site where it gives her parents as Alfred James and Mary WATKINS.
So the question is, did Jane become Annie or is she a completely different person?
At the moment I can only suggest that you try to find more information about Jane Elizabeth WATKINS to establish if she did exist as a different person so you need to check at least the 1871 and 1881 census then any possible marriage. Don't forget to check also for any possible death from 1867 onwards.
When you have done this come back to us with the results so we know which way this is heading.
Mike