BERRY/BURY - Elizabeth

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kiwibarb
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I am trying to trace my GG Grandmother Elizabeth Bury/Berry.  She was born about 1829 +/- and according to census I have found for her she was born in Baschurch.  I have found an Elizabeth BURRY 1841 age 15yrs living in Shewsbury.  An Elizabeth Berry is living with the Low family as a house servant in 1851. It states she was born ?? Baschurch (cannot make out the name before Baschurch)

7 April 1855 she marries Thomas Evans at ERBISTOCK.  Her father's name is Edward Bury, Stonemason.

In 1861 she is in St. Martin Shropshire/Oswestry? with my Gt Grandfather Edward.  Her place of birth is Baschurch.

1871 she is in Minera with husband and family.  Again her place of birth is Baschurch.

1891 she is still in Minera, Again her birth place is Baschurch.

1881??

Some of her children were born in the Chirk and St Martin areas before going back to Minera.  I feel there must have been family there as at one stage Thomas lived there as well as an Agriculture labourer.  His main occupation seems to be mining.

Elizabeth died in Minera in 1898.

I have struggled to find any information on Elizabeth's birth or any family member. The name seems to vary from Bury on her marriage to Berry when some of her children are born.  If someone is able to help I would very much appreciate it.  This has been a brick wall for me for sometime now.

Many thanks,

Regards

Barbara

 

Michael J Hulme
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Hello Barbara

The 1851 census entry place of birth says, "Shropshire Baschurch". If you look down the 'Where Born' column all the entries have the County of birth followed by the place, usually the parish but not always.

The baptism registers of Baschurch, Shropshire are on the Find my Past subscription web site but I can't find any trace of a baptism for Elizabeth BURY / BERRY.

The family obviously have connections with places located in Wales in the Wrexham area and whilst I don't have access to such detailed records as I do for Shropshire I still can't find a baptism for Elizabeth.

Mike

kiwibarb
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Mike, thank you for looking at this.

Like you I have looked for a birth/baptism for Elizabeth but have not had any luck at all.

I do have a FMP Sub and searched there as well but nothing.

I did find a birth for an Elizabeth Bury b 1829 Bapt 9 Jan 1829.  Mother Elizabeth Bury, single woman.  Found it in the Wiltshire Baptism index for Fonthill Bishop.  I guess this could always be a possibility??

Where born Baschurch, Shropshire, England

Civil parish Chester St Oswald

County/Island Cheshire

Country England

Registration district Great Boughton

Mike are you saying that possibly I should look at Chester records at all or Cheshire. 

I found a  Elizabeth Berry father Edward in Manchester 1841 Census, occupation Stone Mason. I discounted this, but, should I look at this again??  Elizabeth is 11yrs, mother Jane and other sibblings.

Yes, she does seem to have connections to the area but not sure where/how/who.   A real puzzle this one.  I guess she could have made up the father's name on her marriage cert??  Edward was her first born, so follows the family name.

Thanks for your help, appreciate it.

Barbara

Michael J Hulme
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Hello Barbara

One thing you can do is get Elizabeth's year of birth from each of the census entries she appears in to establish the possible spread of years. I note that in the 1861 census in which she is the head her year of birth is 1825.  Do you have a copy of her death certificate, if so what was her age and so year of birth?

It is not unusual for illegitimate people to make up a father's name for the marriage entry but it might also be the name of a step father if her mother married when the child was young so he would always be considered to be her father.

You have a difficult task with this one.  Good luck.

Mike

kiwibarb
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Hi Mike,

Of the 4 census I have her for certainty are:  Cannot find her in 1881, but, saying that there is an Elizabeth Evans living with her sister Sarah Mathews in Shropshire.  Elizabeth is 55yrs.  It is a possibility, birth though Maesbury, Shropshire, England, yr of birth 1826. So DOB anywhere between 1825 and 1829. 

1851 b 1827 = 24

1861 b 1825 = 36

1871 b 1829 = 42

1891 b 1827 = 64

I do have a death certificate for her in 1898 but, I am questioning this.  This may not be the correct one. 

Not an easy one for sure.

Thankis.

Barbara

Did get a certificate for her death in 1898 but she is the widow of Thomas Evans Forgeman which is what Thomas was not.

Will need to try for other certificates.

 

johnp3
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Hi Barbara, Thomas did become a forgeman. See below, So the death you found is the correct one.

I'm trying to find about Elizabeth Bury's early life & birth etc. And twice she stated she was born in the Wellington Shrops area.

Best Regards

J.P

Possible:
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Cross Hill, St Chad, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
First name(s)    Last name    Sex    Age    Birth year    Birth place
George    Williams    Male    30    1811   Printer    Shropshire, England
Priscilla    Williams    Female    30    1811    Shropshire, England
Elizabeth    Berry    Female    15  F.S    1826    Shropshire, England

1851 Cens:
Northgate Street, St Oswalds Chester
Name:     Elizabeth Berry
Age:     24
Estimated Birth Year:     abt 1827
Relation:     Servant
Gender:     Female
Where Born:     Baschurch, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish:     Chester St Oswald
County/Island:     Cheshire
Country:     England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:     
View image
Registration District:     Great Boughton
Sub-registration District:     Cathedral Division
ED, institution, or vessel:     1d
Neighbors:     
Household Schedule Number:     129
Piece:     2172
Folio:     102
Page Number:     36
Household Members:     
Name     Age
William Low     37
Elizabeth Low     30
Elizabeth Low     10
Richard M S Low     3 Mo
Elizabeth Berry     24

Marriage:
First name(s)     Elizabeth  Signed Her name
Last name     Bury  
Age     Full  
Marital status     spinster
Residence     Erbistock
Father's name(s)     Edward Bury
Father's occupation     Stonemason
Marriage date     07 Apr 1855
Marriage place     Erbistock
Spouse's first name(s)     Thomas  Signed X
Spouse's last name     Evans
Spouse's age     Full
Spouse's marital status bachelor
Spouse's occupation     Collier
Spouse's residence     Wrexham
Spouse's father's name(s) Enoch Evans
Spouse's father's occupation     Collier
First witness's name     Aaron Evns X
Second witness's name     Ann Roberts X
Marriage year     1855
Description     Denbighshire Record Office | Marriages, PD/38/1/72, July 1837-December 1950 (PD-28-1-72)
County     Denbighshire
Country     Wales
Event     Marriage
Event type     Marriages
Event year range     1837-1950
Page     12
Record set     Denbighshire Marriages And Banns
Category     Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory     Parish Marriages
Collections from     Wales, Great Britain

1861 Cens:
Name:     Elizabeth Evans
Age:     36
Estimated Birth Year:     1825
Relation:     Head
Gender:     Female
Where Born:     Baschurch, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish:     St Martin
County/Island:     Shropshire
Country:     England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:     
View image
Registration District:     Oswestry
Sub-registration District:     St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel:     3
Neighbors:     
Household Schedule Number:     111
Piece:     1879
Folio:     39
Page Number:     19
Household Members:     
Name     Age
Elizabeth Evans 36  Coal Miners Wife
Edward Evans     4   Son

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Queen Street, Cefn Mawr, Christionydd Kenrich, Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
First name(s)    Last name    Relationship    Marital status    Sex    Age    Birth year    Occupation    Birth place
Thomas    Evans    Head    -    Male    47    1824    - Forge roller?    St. Martins
Elizabeth    Evans    Wife    -    Female    43    1828    -    Priors? Lee,Shropshire, England
Charlotte    Evans    Daughter    -    Female    19    1852    - Denbighshire, Wales
Mary    Evans    Daughter    -    Female    16    1855    -    Staffordshire, England
Charles    Evans    Son    -    Male    10    1861    -    Denbighshire, Wales
George A    Evans    Son    -    Male    7    1864    -    Denbighshire, Wales
George Dyson    Evans    Grandson    -    Male    1    1870    -    -

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
47, Well Street, Ruabon, Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
First name(s)    Last name    Relationship    Marital status    Sex    Age    Birth year    Occupation    Birth place
Thomas    Evans    Head    Married    Male    57    1824    (iron) forge roller    St Martin, Shropshire, England
Elizabeth    Evans    Wife    Married    Female    52    1829    -    Wellington, Shropshire, England
George A    Evans    Son    Single    Male    17    1864    Railway porter    Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Georgie D    Evans    Son    Single    Male    11    1870    Scholar    Manchester, Lancashire, England

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Talwrn Road, Bersham, Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
First name(s)    Last name    Relationship    Marital status    Sex    Age    Birth year    Occupation    Birth place
Thomas    Evans    Head    Married    Male    62    1829    Labourer? (farrier?)    Bersham, Denbighshire, Wales
Elizabeth    Evans    Wife    Married    Female    64    1827    -    Baschurch, Shropshire, England
Annie    Evans    Daughter    Single    Female    29    1862    Domestic servant    Chirk, Denbighshire, Wales
Job    Evans    Grandson    -    Male    4    1887    -    Bersham, Denbighshire, Wales

Death:                               Age
EVANS, ELIZABETH           71  
GRO Reference: 1898  D Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 11B  Page 182

Burial:
First name(s)     Elizabeth     Abode:Coedpoeth
Last name     Evans
Burial date     24 Oct 1898
Place     Minera
Parish     Minera
Age     71
Birth year     1827
Burial year     1898
County     Denbighshire
Country     Wales
Page     156
Record set     Denbighshire Burials
Category     Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Denomination     Anglican
Subcategory     Parish Burials
Collections from     Wales, Great Britain

 

 

 

 

kiwibarb
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John, thanks for taking the times to look at this info.

Unfortunately the 1871 and 1881 are not my family.

This is the family in 1871

Name Elizabeth Evans

Age 42

Estimated Birth Year 1829

Relation Wife

Spouse's Name Thomas Evans

Gender  Female Where born

Baschurch, Shropshire, England

Civil parish Bersham

Ecclesiastical parish Minera

Town Talwrn

County/Island Denbighshire

Country Wales

Registration district

Wrexham

Sub-registration district

Wrexham

ED, institution, or vessel 7

Household schedule number 199

Piece 5655

Folio 125

Page number 36

Household members Name Elizabeth Evans

Age 42

Name

Thomas Evans Age

38 Name

Ann Evans Age 9

Name Thomas Evans Age 7

Name Alice Evans Age 5

Name Mary Evans Age 2

I have been unable to find the family in 1881.

I apreciate all the time you have put into this.

The death of Elizabeth "could" be correct, I have sent away for another death certificate just to clarify a few things.  I should get that next week sometime.

Regards

Barbara

johnp3
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Hi Barbara, Are the below all the known children of Thomas Evans & Elizabeth Bury/Berry?

So it is always best to include all the information you have regarding the family in question that you would like help with.

Best Regards
J.P

EVANS, ANNE         BERRY      
GRO Reference: 1861  S Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 06A  Page 674

EVANS, EDWARD         BURY      
GRO Reference: 1856  D Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 11B  Page 301

EVANS, ELIZABETH         BURY      
GRO Reference: 1858  M Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 11B  Page 316

EVANS, MARY         BERRY      
GRO Reference: 1859  J Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 06A  Page 669

EVANS, THOMAS         BERRY      
GRO Reference: 1863  J Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 06A  Page 705

EVANS, ALICE         BERRY      
GRO Reference: 1864  S Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 06A  Page 672

EVANS, MARY         BURY      
GRO Reference: 1869  J Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 11B  Page 343

 

kiwibarb
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Yes, that is them.  Except I don't have Mary b 1859 otherwise have all other certificates.

EVANS, MARY         BERRY      
GRO Reference: 1859  J Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 06A  Page 669  Haven't got this one??

Will check it out.  Will send for certificate, in the meantime have found a Mary Evans age 11, Servant in 1871 for Grange family.  Note there is a death for a Mary Evans 1873 age 14. 

  Mary
District  Oswestry
Last name  Evans
County  Shropshire
Gender  Female
Volume  6A
Birth day  -
Page  464
Birth month  -
Country  England
Birth year  1859
Record set  England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Age  14
Category  Life Events (BDMs)
Death quarter  2
Subcategory  Civil Deaths & Burials
Death year  1873

As you see Berry/Bury on the certificates.  I guess could be the dialect.

Thanks.

Barbara

johnp3
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Hi Barbara, Below is what I believe could well be the burial of Mary 1st Evans.

Best Regards

J.P

Burial:
First name(s)     Mary      Abode:The Lodge(s)
Last name     Evans
Burial date     30 Apr 1859
Burial place     St Martin's (Weston Rhyn Tithe Map)
Archive refererence     P237/A/4/1
Birth year     1859
Page     172
Death year     1859
Register type     Burial
Death date     ? ? 1859
Register date range     1813-1864
Age     0
Record set     Shropshire Burials
Burial year     1859
Category     Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory     Parish Burials
Collections from     Great Britain, England
Denomination     Anglican
County     Shropshire
 
Death:    
EVANS, MARY         0  
GRO Reference: 1859  J Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 06A  Page 470

johnp3
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Hi Barbara, Could the below be Mary Evans' Sibling?. It has a good chance I think, because both of them are not listed with their mother in the 1861 Cens.

Best Regards
J.P

Burial:
First name(s)     Elizabeth       Abode:The Lodge
Last name     Evans
Burial date     26 Apr 1860
Burial place     St Martin's (Weston Rhyn Tithe Map)
Age     2
Birth year     1858
Archive refererence     P237/A/4/1
Page     179
Death year     1860
Register type     Burial
Death date     ? ? 1860
Register date range     1813-1864
Record set     Shropshire Burials
Burial year     1860
Category     Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory     Parish Burials
Collections from     Great Britain, England
Denomination     Anglican
County     Shropshire
 
Death:    
EVANS, ELIZABETH         2  
GRO Reference: 1860  J Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 06A  Page 481

 

kiwibarb
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John, this has been so helpful, thank you.  Another pair of eyes, seeing it in a different light after working on it for some time.  Much appreciated.

Yes, there is the possibility that the death of Mary 1 is her.  The lodge St. Martins is where Anne 1861, Thomas 1863 (GG Grandfather) Alice 1864 were all born.  Mary 2 was born back in Bersham in 1869.  She never married and moved at least by 1901 to St. Anne Fylde where she remained till she died in 1960 at age 90.  The first I found she was living in Fylde was when Alice's Illigitimate son Job recorded her on his papers for entry to Canada in 1908.

I have sent away for the PDF for Mary1 b 1859. 

As for Elizabeth born 13 Feb 1858, yes, she died 23 April 1860 the Lodge St Martin and buried April 26.

The naming rights for the family, follow a bit of a pattern.  Edward b 1856 (G Grandfather) from Elizabeth's father?  Not sure though about Mary as Thomas's mother was Suzanna, not sure where Mary comes in.  Thomas's father Enoch?  So not a complete follow on.

Again thank you for your great help.

Regards

Barbara

johnp3
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Hi Barbara, I believe that Elizabeth Bury's mothers name is highly likely to be Mary. To name 2 daughter's Mary, means that name is a very important to this family.

I'm still searching for Elizabeth Bury's father Edward Bury, stonemason, but he is very elusive. And I think Elizabeth could well be illegitimate. I do have a possible baptism for her, but I trying to find her named father Edward Bury first. And to find out what happen to Elizabeth's possible mother.

Best Regards

J.P

 

 

kiwibarb
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Hi John,  Thank you once again.

I totally agree with you re the name Mary, it is significant.  Edward (GGrandfather) named after Elizabeth's father, Elizabeth after mother and Mary certainly is significant.

It just doesn't seem to add up that she has repeatedly put her place of birth as Baschurch.  I am not familiar with the earea or researching it.  Liverpool area has been my most significant so this area of research is new to me.  Learning all the places and their locations.    Hard being so far away. 

I did find a birth for an Elizabeth Bury in Wiltshire who was illigitimate.

Name Elizabeth Bury

Gender Female

Baptism Date 9 Jan 1829

Baptism Place Fonthill Bishop, Wiltshire, England

Parish as it Appears Font Bishop

Mother Elizabeth Bury

Just sitting in my shoebox on Ancestry. 

Thanks John.

Barbara

kiwibarb
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John, I did find a Edward Berry in Manchester 1841, who is a stone mason.  Wife's name Jane!!  Will try and follow up on it today.

Name Edward Berry

Age 40

Estimated Birth Year 1801

Gender Male

Where born Lancashire, England

Civil parish Manchester

Hundred Salford

County/Island Lancashire

Country England

Registration district Manchester

Sub-registration district Ancoats

Piece 576

Book 12

Folio 19

Page number 32

Jane Berry

Age 35

Name Mary Berry

Age 13

Name Elizabeth Berry Age 11

Name John Berry Age 8

Jane Berry Age 6

 Edward Berry Age 4

James Berry Age 1

johnp3
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Hi Barbara, I think that Edward Berry you found in Manchester was a Shoe Maker. I found the same person & family in the 1851 Cens.

Also I think there was some truth in what Elizabeth Bury stated on her marriage record about her father.
I think her father could well be Edward but perhaps his surname was Mason. There are plenty of Edward Mason's about in Shropshire.
Including one who stated in the 1851 Cens he was born in Baschurch.

So this is the best shot for a Elizabeth Bury/Berry I can find. At a later date perhaps she just added beth to the end of her name.

Best Regards

J.P

Best shot for Elizabeth Bury/Berry
Baptism:
First name(s)     Eliza      Abode:House Of Industry
Last name     Berry
Illegitimate
Birth date     11 Mar 1826
Baptism date     26 Mar 1826
Place     Shrewsbury, St Chad's
Mother's name(s)  Mary Berry  Occ:Servant
Father's first name(s)     -
County     Shropshire
Birth year     1826
Register type     Baptism
Register date range     1825-1837
Baptism year     1826
Archive reference     P253/A/2/3
Page     12
Denomination     Anglican
Record set     Shropshire Baptisms
Category     Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory     Parish Baptisms
Collections from     Great Britain, England

Perhaps Elizabeth's mother's baptism?:
Baptism:
First name(s)     Mary
Last name     Bury
Residence     -
Birth date     01 Mar 1803
Baptism date     13 Mar 1803
Place     Shrewsbury, St Mary's
Mother's first name(s)     Mary
Mother's last name     -
Father's first name(s)     -
County     Shropshire
Birth year     1803
Register type     Baptism & Burial
Register date range     1775-1806
Baptism year     1803
Archive reference     P257/A/1/4
Page     143
Denomination     Anglican
Record set     Shropshire Baptisms
Category     Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory     Parish Baptisms
Collections from     Great Britain, England

Best Shot for Elizabeth Bury/Berry
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Cross Hill, St Chad, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
First name(s)    Last name    Sex    Age    Birth year    Birth place
George    Williams    Male    30    1811   Printer    Shropshire, England
Priscilla    Williams    Female    30    1811    Shropshire, England
Elizabeth    Berry    Female    15  F.S    1826    Shropshire, England

Perhaps her mother?
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
St Alkmunds Place, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
First name(s)    Last name    Relationship    Marital status    Sex    Age    Birth year    Occupation    Birth place
Ann    Driver    Head    Unmarried    Female    58    1793    Stay maker    -
Mary    Bury    Servant    Unmarried    Female    43    1808    House serv    - St. Mary's Shrewsbury

Perhaps her mother's burial?
Burial:
First name(s)     Mary     Abode:St. Alkmund's Square
Last name     Bury
Age     50
Burial date     25 Nov 1854
Burial place     Shrewsbury, St Alkmund's
Archive refererence     P252/A/4/1
Birth year     1804
Page     200
Death year     1854
Register type     Burial
Death date     ? ? 1854
Register date range     1813-1855
Record set     Shropshire Burials
Burial year     1854
Category     Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory     Parish Burials
County     Shropshire
Collections from     Great Britain, England
Denomination     Anglican

Perhaps her mother's Death?
Death:
BURY, MARY         50  
GRO Reference: 1854  D Quarter in SHREWSBURY  Volume 06A  Page 457

kiwibarb
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John,

Received the birth certificate for Mary Evans

EVANS, MARY         BERRY      
GRO Reference: 1859  J Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 06A  Page 669

This is one of Elizabeth & Thomas's children.

B 30th March 1859 at the Lodge St Martin.

I am curious about "The Lodge" at St. Martin.  Are you able to enlighten me any further.

All but 3 of the children were born there.

Many thanks for bringing my attention to another daughter.

Regards

Barbara

johnp3
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Hi Barbara, The lodges mentioned no longer exist, but I've looked through the cens including the lodges, and they were very close to The Gledrid, Preesgwyne, Rhosweil & Morton where there is now a Girls School called Moreton Hall. Which is about 1 mile to the West of St.Martins.

Best Regards

J.P

kiwibarb
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John, Thanks for the info re the Lodge, much appreciated.

I have received the death PDF printout of Mary Evans b 1859.  She was a month old when she passed on 28 April 1859.  Died from Convulsions, not certified.  Parents were Elizabeth and Thomas Evans - Coal miner.  Which is correct.

Regards

Barbara

 

 

johnp3
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Hi Barbara, Some more info for you. When my maternal Grandmother left School in 1922/23. She went to work as a housemaid at Erbistock Hall. I think it's a good chance that Elizabeth Bury could have worked there also. There is a lot of info on the Hall on the internet.

Best Regards

J.P