Haughmond Hill

Hello Sandra. I wonder if you refer to that large concrete, obviously wartime construction that lies on a mound just east of the woods, and visible on the south side of the road past Holly Coppice to Rodington. However I wouldn't say that it looked like a decoy house.

For other information you might try the (very helpful) secretary to Upton Magna (civil, not parochial church) Parish Council, who lives very close by at Somerwood. Unfortunately I do not have her name and pnone number just to hand; but try their website.

Hello Martin  I know the one you mention, but I believe that is something to do with an underground reservoir, no this building is in the field next to the Keepers Cottage (Mount Pleasant I think it is called) I don't think you can see it from the road only from the path around Haughmond Hill because it is in a blackthorn wood, it is about 30 yds long (I am not very good with measurements) has an entrance on one side where the cows now gather, it has around 5 chimneys which look like large periscopes. I was told that the Royal Ordinance worked here and when there was a air raid they lit up lights along the road over the hill to make it look like a runway, so that the planes mistook it for Shawbury. I have several photographs of it.

Noted Sandra. All new to me. Do try the lady mentioned.

Another snippet. I learned last July / August from a member of the family who have owned the area for centuries that the received pronunciation has always been "Haymond" rather than the "Hormond" like as what you and I might employ. This indeed seems to fit with the spelling in times past: Haghmon(d).

I have tried their website but cannot get a telephone No. so I have emailed the clerk of the council for help, thank you with the pronunciation.

While we are on the subject of Haughmond Hill, does anyone have any information on Nancy Spragg and the people who lived in the Castle on the Hill?

I have been to Haughmond Hill this morning and looked again at the building, it is built on a mound with the majority of the building underground only the top 1/4 showing, you can see it from the road (while the trees are bare) if you are on the road looking at Keepers Cottage the building is on the left top corner of the field. I have just been told that it was built to light up the hill so that enemy planes would mistake it for the munitions Factory's in Shrewsbury & the Air Base at Atcham..

Sandra, you posted a query headed "Haughmond Castle" on 18th October.

That apart, Nancy has cropped up before or elsewhere on this Forum or on the former Message Board.

I seem to recall a comment that Spragg / Sprague was not her real name.

Sorry Martin you are quite right, It's just that I wondered if anyone reading had missed my last request and could add more light on the people who lived on  Haughmond Hill.

Apart from the "Castle", whose lower walls were still standing in my childhood there was at one time a cottage, hovel more like, by Queen Eleanor's Bower. I never saw this standing but materials were still scattered, plus the tell-tale sign of nettles marking human habitation.

When you can next get in to Archives you might order up the fascinating, purely local census for Uffington of about 1821. It is among the parish documents lised in those blue indices in the Reading Room. One of the householders is a James (or query John; I forget) Edwards, a gamekeeper who at least at some point lived on the hill. Thought to be ancestor of my friend Pete Edwards who posts here occasionally.

The cottage you refer to is the cottage of Nancy Spragg who used to serve teas/lemonade etc. to people who visited the hill, she married Thomas Spragg (Spread) in 1842 and lived on the hill until 1904 when she died. Thomas's father William was living on the hill in 1800.  I have several photographs of the cottage together with Nancy, you can still see the footings of the cottage and her Lilac trees in the front garden and pick her damsons.

I have just ordered a photograph from the Archives of Haughmond Castle, when I collect it I will look up the Uffington Census returns for 1821 (I didn't know they did them then.)

I am still trying to locate Queen Eleanor's Bower though.

It looks as though you have collected quite a bit so far, Sandra, on Nancy. I see her as Ann Spread in 1881 Census; and this prompts the comment that the bulk of the Hill, to the east,  was in Upton Magna parish, the boundary with Uffington being roughly the small stream that still crosses under Holly Coppice Road just east of the Forestry Commission public car park. So, unfortunately, you will not find the Spread / Spragg cottage in that 1821 or so Census. (That was purely a local initiative, written out on quite thin paper).

Was Nancy the Ann Barnett bap in 1813 at Hadnall?

The Bower, I think, is on the knoll overlooking the site of the cottage to its north-west. One tale was that it was where Henry IV's queen and her ladies watched (was it in view?) or waited for the outcome of the Battle of Shrewsbury 21.7.1403 - but cannot be named after her. Annoyingly (as one of his closer direct though illegitimate descendants) I have not nailed down whether the King married his second wife Joanna of Navarre 3.2.1402-3 or 3.2.1403-4. The "Eleanor" seems to have been she of Aquitaine, wife of Henry II.

Yes Nancy was baptised Ann Barnett 1813 at Hadnal, but I don't have any other information on her before she married in 1842.

As you point out how could anyone watch the battle of Shrewsbury from this viewpoint?

Sandra, I had been wondering whence Nancy drew her water, not least for her teas and lemonade. Now I see on the 1:25,000 map that a spring is clearly marked by the northern edge of her enclosure.

From the same map, with its greater detail, one can now estimate that the accepted site of the 1403 Battle was probably in view from Q E Bower, which is boldly marked, and at a lower level than suggested above.

To start another hare, Mr Gavin Southall, who renovated the cottage at the Uffington end of the Avenue to the Hill, developed a theory that the Battle was conducted much closer to Uffington; but I never went into detail with him and cannot say if this is still held.

Martyn

Yes the spring is located under a holly tree, as you say on the northern edge of her garden, I have been there this morning and the water still flows from it, it is difficult to locate and only really accessible at this time of year before the bracken grows.

I also walked  Q.E.Bower and had forgotten it  is marked by a small stone monument,  how do I get to look at a 1.25.000 map?

Do you think the battle of Shrewsbury was fought over a larger area than just by Battlefield Church?

It's been a lovely day for your visit! Nancy's place (as one now knows from you) was a regular biking rest place.

The 1:25,000 is part of the standard OS catalogue and ought to be available at main stockists.

Sorry, but am in no way an expert on the topography and course of the Battle: my voluntary work for SABC leading up to the 2003 celebrations was purely on personalities and their genealogies. But the many thousands must have covered much ground. The free exhibition at the 1403 centre at Battlefield is obviously very well researched. Can recommend a visit.

I walk Haughmond with my 2 dogs 3-4 times a week, this Friday morning I am taking a few of my WI members there for 'a bit of Haughmond history'.

Do you have any idea why is is called Queen Eleanor's bower? if it is Eleanor of Aquitaine she must have been dead by then.

Somewhere in my paperwork I have a family history chart from you and I think we are distantly related through the Perslow family is that correct?  if so perhaps I too are related to royalty.!!!

Eleanor of Aquitaine died in 1204. The wife of Henry III was Eleanor of Provence and the first wife of Edward I was Eleanor of Castile although I have no idea whether they had any link to Haughmond. However, i recall having read, though I don't know where, that one of Eleanor of Aquitaine's places of imprisonment may have been somewhere nearby.

Hello Ann and Sandra. Nice to see a post from you again, Ann. In reply to both I know no more than readily seen via an exact "  " search in Google against queen eleanor's bower; but Eleanor of Aquitaine seems to be indicated.

As regards Purslow, Sandra, there are a few ways in which various branches can be seen to descend from Edward I and / or later monarchs. If you can dig out your connection I may be able to advise. (Descents from Henry Iv's illegitimate granddaughter Antigone, Countess of Tancarville  are quite widespread in Shropshire, largely through Kynaston, in my case via the last Grey of Powis. Our poster David64 shares such).

I looked up Eleanor of Aquitaine on Wikipedia and it states that Eleanor was imprisoned for 16 years much of the time in various locations in England. About 4 miles from Shrewsbury and close by Haughmond Abbey is "Queen Eleanor's Bower", the remains of a triangular castle which is believed to have been one of the prisons.

So it seems that it had the name long before the Battle of Shrewsbury.

Hello Martin

I have 'dug out' my correspondence with you dated 1990 !! it seems my research only goes back as far as Robert Burgwin 1769-1812 married 24.11.1789 to Sarah Lloyd bp.16.6.1769

I am still stuck on my mothers Gran Lucy Bennett born 1867 where?

We've been covering some ground on "Haughmond Hill", Sandra!

If I have correctly identified the Pool(e) whom William Burgwin married 7.2.1730-1 at Trelystan / Woolstonmynd she descended, at least per my research, from Thomas Purslowe, esquire, of Hogstow (buried 10.12.1612 at Habberley) and his wife Ursula Cholmeley (buried ditto 24.12.1604), of Coppenhall, Staffs. TP was descended from Edward I on two lines via Boterell, Cornewall, Barre and Talbot; while UC had five lines through her Langton mother.

The problem, of course, on your side is to identify the parentage of your first Robert Burgwin. There are many baps seemingly missing in the 1760s in the Minsterley / Habberley / Worthen area. But Robert was a name that came in to Burgwin from Pool(e). There is also another line of Burgwin in Westbury (which included Minsterley) from the 1690s, to which the said William has not been affiliated to which you may descend. Earlier origins of both - probably west of the Breiddens and In Llanfair Caereinion well before 1600.

Good luck with your guided tour today. Sorry but nothing to hand on Bennett.

A fuzzy (and no doubt 19th century) photograph of Nancy's cottage, with presumably aproned Nancy at the door, is printed, with comment, on page 8 of this week's Shrewsbury Chronicle. You probably have this already, Sandra.

Yes I did see it, I have contacted Toby Neal and given him more details of the cottage and Castle which contrary to what he says the remains can still be seen, unfortunately he is away on holiday until the 17th April,  but after this date hopefully he will print another article and ask readers if they have any information/memories, but unfortunately the majority of people who went there as children have now passed away, and as I fear if I don't write it down now our knowledge of this piece of local history will disappear.

Hello Sandra and Martyn,

         I have followed this thread with interest as I remember my mother relating details of Sunday School trips to Haughmond Hill, these were made by horse drawn canal boats in the early 1900s.                        

       She told how all the Sunday School pupils would meet at the canal basin at the rear of Morris's Oils at the bottom of what was then, I believe locally called Gas House Lane, they would then be transported to Berwick Wharf or thereabouts and spend the day on Haughmond Hill.  

      These were coal barges so one can imagine, no matter how much they had been swept out, by the end of the trip one would find their Sunday Best needing a good wash. 

       In later years, I remember the Sunday School trips would be by train to Church Stretton, then spending the day up the Carding Mill valley, up to a few years ago I had an old biscuit tin full of old photographs which belonged to my parents, some of which were taken during both of these trips and showed old ladies sitting on the grass drinking tea and children playing, but regretfully these have all been thrown out as clutter.

       I have said once or twice in the past, my family, especially my Grandfather, Father, Mother and Aunties, were all great walkers, 'Shanks Pony' was cheaper than bus fares, it would be just an afternoon stroll for a 4yr old to be taken from Castle Fields to Haughmond Hill and back via the canal tow path or along the Fisher man's path by the side of the River Seven.  

Thanks for the memories,

Gulielmus.

Thanks, Rip van. Others would approach from the Monkmoor side of the river, and cross on the ferry behind or near the Corbet Arms at Uffington.

And blackberry picking on Downton hill?

Thank you Gulielmus and Martyn, I want to write down peoples memories of the hill is  it possible for me to put my email address on this site so that you can email me directly with your memories?

PLUS do you know where the Cave is located I know it is below the Castle but where?

           Good morning Sandra,

          If you publish your e-mail address on any site you are asking for undesirable attention from certain people, I know this from my own experience and regret of doing it in the past.

         You can obtain my e-mail address via Michael Hulme, I'm sure he won't mind, he has my permission to give it to you, I will then make contact in this way.

        Gulielmus.

Ditto Sandra. But cannot promise much, as career was largely away from Shropshire. In passing, as a very young child my parents would take me up behind the Abbey, where I believed a water-conduit structure was a teddy bear's house. (William will say that one has not matured much further).

What about posting a request in the Chronicle, for a very much wider, and local, readership?

Thank you Gulielmus and Martyn

But how do I contact Michael Hulme?

Martin I know where you live, is it OK if I send you my email address to pass on.

Toby Neal is to write an article in the Chronicle but I will write to the letters page in the Shropshire Star.

Sandra

I have sent the email addresses for Gulielmus and Martyn direct to Sandra.

Mike

Thank you I have made a note of them.   It is always nice to have peoples memories of the hill, but I am still trying to locate the cave, I do know it is in the rock face between the Castle and Queen Eleanor's Bower but where?